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Upgrading the 147 National Snack to MDB


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#1 Ruskie

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

I have a few 147's that I would like to upgrade to MDB and also to retrofit the trays to hard wire connections. Has anyone done this with success.  I have read up on the MDB modification kit and it utilizizes a interface module.  They claim all you need is to connect some wires to the power transformer to get the needed 32 volts.  Any advice on this? 

Also on the tray hardwire modifications, basiclly all you need to do is drill and attach the small connector board to the tray rail and attach the wire harness supplied to the existing main tray harness that runs the back of the cabinet to the board. 

This all sounds fairly basic... but is it?

Advice or recommendations?



#2 AZVendor

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:55 AM

The tray harness kit is not too difficult to install, it's just very time consuming.  You will replace the tray boards as well as adding the boards on the rails and you'll bypass the connectors on the back of the cabinet.  They will tell you it can be done in 1 1/2 hours, but that's only if you have done a bunch of them or don't take care to follow the directions.  I took my time and it took me 3 hrs to install.  I found a couple of confusing parts in the instructions but figured out what they meant or had left out pretty easily.  I do remember installing the top rail board or bracket on the wrong rail and had to move it.  I believe the top bracket is different than the rest and you may also have crummy screws included in the kit.  I also remember that the screw hole template was off and not to scale.  Just stupid stuff that I had to work around. 

 

Why do you want to do MDB in these machines?  If you want to install a card reader I don't believe the factory logic board can accept the input it will get from the kit.  This board is the same as what was in the National 430 cold food and it wasn't able to accept credit from a card reader.  If you want MDB for another reason, you will have to find 24V somewhere in the machine to connect to.  The wiring diagram doesn't show if there are any 24V outputs from the transformer.  You will have to call National tech support and ask them.  The MDB kit is pretty straight forward; you have a power harness to 24V, a male 12 pin plug to go where the old changer plugged in and a female MDB connector for your new coin mech and validator.  The coin mech needs to be a late model that uses a motor to pay change out, not solenoids.  You also have to be able to count coins into the coin tubes so the coin mech won't ever pay out imaginary coins.  A late model changer helps here too, as they have "float up" or "par" level capabilities built in.



#3 Ruskie

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:05 AM

Thanks AZ,

The reason for the MDB is so I can upgrade the coin changer to use dollar coins. 

I'm having alignment issues on the trays and getting tired fooling with it.



#4 AZVendor

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

Putting the hardwire shelf kit in is a great idea as National's idea of a tray connector was pretty lame.  You will be happy with the shelf conversion.  You don't need to go MDB just to accept dollar coins as all late model coin mechs accept the dollar.  You do need to make sure your coin slot will accept the larger coin.  I presume what you mean is you want the coin mech to inventory the dollar coins.  This will make sense if you plan on having several prices over $1 and have a $5 capable bill validator.  

 

You can obtain Mars VN4000 coin changers with cassettes that include the dollar coin.  The VN4000 series includes the VN4000 at 110V, VN4010XV at 24V and VN4510 w/ MDB.  As you can see you would want the VN4000 as it's the only 110V micromech version.  If you have a local or nearby MEI distributor/authorized service center check with them.  They should be able to find the VN4000 in the configuration you need.  They won't be new and they are older technology, but so is the machine.  This can save you quite a bit of money over converting to MDB.  If you have trouble locating any of these mechs let me know and I will see if I can find some for you.



#5 Ruskie

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

I presume what you mean is you want the coin mech to inventory the dollar coins.  This will make sense if you plan on having several prices over $1 and have a $5 capable bill validator.  

AZ

 

Yes I need the coin mech to stack the dollar coin and then pay out as change when $5 bill is used.  I have MDB changers with 4 and 5 tube capacity that can be configured for the dollar coin, but they are all MDB 32v.

Ebay has some VN4000 for $150 and up.  I'll need to see if the expense is justified considering the 4000 is out of production and repair parts may not be available at a resonable cost.

Nice chatting with you.   



#6 validatorman

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

We have VN4000 coin mechs in various configurations. Let me know what you need on a personal email and I'll see what we have.