37 replies to this topic

[HooseFoose]

Vending Chat Members,

I have been running my route for a while using my combo machines. I was thinking about expanding my route, so I talked to the guys @ the Wittern Group. Originally, I had been considering Crane National, but now I am thinking about these Wittern Machines. They seem to go under a lot of different names: Wittern, USI, Fawn and they even hand a brand at Sam's Club called SelectiVend. It kind of throws up a red flag to see so many names, but I suppose Toyota does the same thing with their Scion and Lexus brands.

Specifically, I am interested in your experience with this company in the following areas:

1.) Their equipment. Have you used it? How was your experience? How many do you have? Do you have alot of problems with them? Would you buy more?

2.) Their Financing. I see that they have 90 days same as cash and 100% financing options available. I definitely saw some red flags go up when I Googled "Wittern reviews" and came up with the following court case: Wittern v Anderson @ http://www.vending-finance.com/ where they got sued for their contract terms. It looks like they were advertising 11% interest but they were somehow able to charge 19.2% or something like that. That was back in 2002. Have they cleaned up their act? Have you done anything with them recently, finance-wise? Would you do it again?

3.) Their Tech Support. I know vending machines are going to break at some point. How did they treat you? Do their techs know what they are talking about? Do they ship parts out quickly? How is their tech support compared to other manufacturers you have used?

4.) Their Full Service. One of the main attractions to me with this company is that the independent distributor has already placed them on location in places that are making enough money to cover the product, the debt service and still be profitable - even with 100% financing. I like being able to see historical data of the machines are actually doing instead of the glorious lies of other locators who will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can get paid (yup, been screwed by locators in past before. Not happening again...). They also say that they will deliver the machines to the site, install them, set them up, and give you training on how to operate them. They call this "White Glove". With gas prices today, having the machines delivered and setup on location worth the money to not deal with the headache of truck rental, ect.


--------------------------
I am also interested in your opinion on the deal they have offered as far as the location goes:

They are 2 Office complexes in the same office park.
Office Complex1 (OC1) has 65 employees
Office Complex2 (OC2) has 50 employees

Both OC1 and OC2 run in two 12 hour shifts.
No Commission is required.

Each Complex has 1 full sizes snack machine and 1 full size drink machine, for a total of 4 machines. All machines are less than 1 year old. Their full service includes all parts and labor for 2 years

OC1 is $10,000
OC2 is $9,000
Total: $19,000

Using their 100% financing, the payments are about $300/location, so $600 total. Financing is for 4 years.
Each location is bringing in $250-300/wk, so that is about $1,000 to $1,200/month.
Total, both locations are grossing $2,000 to $2,400. Subtract $1,000 to $1,200 for product, that leaves $1,000 to $1,200. Subtract $600 for debt financing, then the locations are profiting $400-600/mo after all is said and done.
--------------------------


Your feedback is greatly appreciated on your experience with Wittern and also on this location from them. Thank you.


Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[scottgtt]

Vending Chat Members,

I have been running my route for a while using my combo machines. I was thinking about expanding my route, so I talked to the guys @ the Wittern Group. Originally, I had been considering Crane National, but now I am thinking about these Wittern Machines. They seem to go under a lot of different names: Wittern, USI, Fawn and they even hand a brand at Sam's Club called SelectiVend. It kind of throws up a red flag to see so many names, but I suppose Toyota does the same thing with their Scion and Lexus brands.

Specifically, I am interested in your experience with this company in the following areas:

1.) Their equipment. Have you used it? How was your experience? How many do you have? Do you have alot of problems with them? Would you buy more?

2.) Their Financing. I see that they have 90 days same as cash and 100% financing options available. I definitely saw some red flags go up when I Googled "Wittern reviews" and came up with the following court case: Wittern v Anderson @ http://www.vending-finance.com/ where they got sued for their contract terms. It looks like they were advertising 11% interest but they were somehow able to charge 19.2% or something like that. That was back in 2002. Have they cleaned up their act? Have you done anything with them recently, finance-wise? Would you do it again?

3.) Their Tech Support. I know vending machines are going to break at some point. How did they treat you? Do their techs know what they are talking about? Do they ship parts out quickly? How is their tech support compared to other manufacturers you have used?

4.) Their Full Service. One of the main attractions to me with this company is that the independent distributor has already placed them on location in places that are making enough money to cover the product, the debt service and still be profitable - even with 100% financing. I like being able to see historical data of the machines are actually doing instead of the glorious lies of other locators who will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can get paid (yup, been screwed by locators in past before. Not happening again...). They also say that they will deliver the machines to the site, install them, set them up, and give you training on how to operate them. They call this "White Glove". With gas prices today, having the machines delivered and setup on location worth the money to not deal with the headache of truck rental, ect.
--------------------------
I am also interested in your opinion on the deal they have offered as far as the location goes:

They are 2 Office complexes in the same office park.
Office Complex1 (OC1) has 65 employees
Office Complex2 (OC2) has 50 employees

Both OC1 and OC2 run in two 12 hour shifts.
No Commission is required.

Each Complex has 1 full sizes snack machine and 1 full size drink machine, for a total of 4 machines. All machines are less than 1 year old. Their full service includes all parts and labor for 2 years

OC1 is $10,000
OC2 is $9,000
Total: $19,000

Using their 100% financing, the payments are about $300/location, so $600 total. Financing is for 4 years.
Each location is bringing in $250-300/wk, so that is about $1,000 to $1,200/month.
Total, both locations are grossing $2,000 to $2,400. Subtract $1,000 to $1,200 for product, that leaves $1,000 to $1,200. Subtract $600 for debt financing, then the locations are profiting $400-600/mo after all is said and done.
--------------------------
Your feedback is greatly appreciated on your experience with Wittern and also on this location from them. Thank you.
Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

I have bought about 20 snacks from them and financed all but 3. I could tell you horror stories about their finance dept. the service dept. is good as long as you are under warranty. as soon as warranty expires, all products become a ridiculous price. The machines are of very questionable quality. They do work ok, but have a number of issues that I would call nuisances that make them not as easy to service as Crane etc... I would run not walk away from this company. they also do programs where they help you find locations when you buy their machines, don't fall for it, I have not done it, but know someone who did, they promise sky high commissions to get the locations and then you can't afford to be in the location and you are the one stuck trying to get out of a contract.

[HooseFoose]

Scottgtt,

Thank you for your candid descriptions. If you don't mind sharing, I would like to hear of a few examples about the finance dept. Have they been recent encounters? Was it a number of years ago? Do you still use them? I am trying to get a good feel for the company as a whole. Thanks!

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[BVI]

Vending Chat Members,

I have been running my route for a while using my combo machines. I was thinking about expanding my route, so I talked to the guys @ the Wittern Group. Originally, I had been considering Crane National, but now I am thinking about these Wittern Machines. They seem to go under a lot of different names: Wittern, USI, Fawn and they even hand a brand at Sam's Club called SelectiVend. It kind of throws up a red flag to see so many names, but I suppose Toyota does the same thing with their Scion and Lexus brands.

Specifically, I am interested in your experience with this company in the following areas:

1.) Their equipment. Have you used it? How was your experience? How many do you have? Do you have alot of problems with them? Would you buy more?

2.) Their Financing. I see that they have 90 days same as cash and 100% financing options available. I definitely saw some red flags go up when I Googled "Wittern reviews" and came up with the following court case: Wittern v Anderson @ http://www.vending-finance.com/ where they got sued for their contract terms. It looks like they were advertising 11% interest but they were somehow able to charge 19.2% or something like that. That was back in 2002. Have they cleaned up their act? Have you done anything with them recently, finance-wise? Would you do it again?

3.) Their Tech Support. I know vending machines are going to break at some point. How did they treat you? Do their techs know what they are talking about? Do they ship parts out quickly? How is their tech support compared to other manufacturers you have used?

4.) Their Full Service. One of the main attractions to me with this company is that the independent distributor has already placed them on location in places that are making enough money to cover the product, the debt service and still be profitable - even with 100% financing. I like being able to see historical data of the machines are actually doing instead of the glorious lies of other locators who will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can get paid (yup, been screwed by locators in past before. Not happening again...). They also say that they will deliver the machines to the site, install them, set them up, and give you training on how to operate them. They call this "White Glove". With gas prices today, having the machines delivered and setup on location worth the money to not deal with the headache of truck rental, ect.
--------------------------
I am also interested in your opinion on the deal they have offered as far as the location goes:

They are 2 Office complexes in the same office park.
Office Complex1 (OC1) has 65 employees
Office Complex2 (OC2) has 50 employees

Both OC1 and OC2 run in two 12 hour shifts.
No Commission is required.

Each Complex has 1 full sizes snack machine and 1 full size drink machine, for a total of 4 machines. All machines are less than 1 year old. Their full service includes all parts and labor for 2 years

OC1 is $10,000
OC2 is $9,000
Total: $19,000

Using their 100% financing, the payments are about $300/location, so $600 total. Financing is for 4 years.
Each location is bringing in $250-300/wk, so that is about $1,000 to $1,200/month.
Total, both locations are grossing $2,000 to $2,400. Subtract $1,000 to $1,200 for product, that leaves $1,000 to $1,200. Subtract $600 for debt financing, then the locations are profiting $400-600/mo after all is said and done.
--------------------------
Your feedback is greatly appreciated on your experience with Wittern and also on this location from them. Thank you.
Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

Here are my thoughts on Wittern.

I have several of their BC10 (or BC500, whichever name you prefer) soda machines, several of their HR-Series snack machines, 3 of their Combo II combo machines, and 3 of their CF1000 Cold Food Satellites.

EQUIPMENT:
I agree with what Scottgtt said in that their machines have "nuisances" that can indeed slow you down when you're trying get through your route quickly. Overall, their machines do work quite well with minimal problems. I mean, as with anything mechanical, there are always going to be things you don't like about certain equipment. It's like that with any machine or manufacturer. There are always pros and cons. You just have to decide what's best for you and best for your customer.

Bottom line? Their machines are dumbed down, at least programming-wise, for the average non-professional, or entry-level vendor. In other words, the menus are very easy to navigate, and the average person should be able to configure any of their equipment without any great difficulty. They are a good option for someone new to start off with. However, experienced vendors normally gravitate - sooner or later - to Royal, Dixie-Narco, Vendo, National, AP - because they are more geared towards the vending professional and not so much the vending novice.

FINANCING:
It sucks. Don't do it. Provide your own financing, even if it's plastic. Just stay away from their in-house financing... unless you do 90 days same as cash and then do your own financing at the 90-day mark.

TECH SUPPORT:
Very good. They are very good at trouble-shooting, and very helpful. Very fast turn-around for needed parts. I have nothing but good things to say about Vendnet.

FULL SERVICE:
Until you get more experience under your belt, I'd stay away from getting into deals where the equipment is already on location. You need experience in this industry to be able to recognize good opportunities and know which ones are not so good. Only experience can teach that. So I'd stay away from anything they might try to set you up with... at least for a while.

As for the white glove installation and training... I seriously doubt they will do that - pay someone to install your equipment, set it up, and train you. They probably mean talking you through it on the phone or something. But you really don't need that. If anyone can't set their machines up on your own - as dumbed down as they are - then they probably should not get too serious about vending as a career. Sure, you might have a question or two, but you need to be the one doing the setups. You gain nothing at all by having someone else do it for you.

[scottgtt]

I agree, machines are dumbed down and limited in scope. They do work, but I won't buy anymore. I am in the middle of a four year financing deal. they delivered machines that were not ready for location, had a lot of problems (mostly USI 32s and 38s). It took four months to get them up and going and yet finance wanted their money right away even though the machines were not on site because of mistakes made at Wittern. the finance dept argued that they were a separate entity and didn't care about the sales side which is crap since they are all on the same site etc... They are just separate companies owned by the same parent. Since then I have had multiple problems with machines, even lost one good location because they had decided they didn't like the machines and I could not at the time replace them. We did a survey and the locations number one complaint was unreliable snack machines (all USIs). The finance department just doesn't care and would not hardly work with me. I should have used alternative financing and am actually working on refi right now. I asked the finance dept to rewrite the loan so I could ammoritze it a little longer and be able to afford it since I lost the location primarily because of these machines and they didn't want to hear about it. This is the only location I had ever lost and I learned the hard way not to put questionable machines in high volume locations. Since then I have surveyed other accounts and most with USI machines don't like them. and the part about them finding locations, see my previous post, you will get stuck with a high commission which will come off of gross so the profit your talking about will come down by anywhere from 20-25 percent of the gross because this is how Wittern gets decent locations for people who buy their machines. the guy I know was doing about $3500.00 per month and netting around $1500.00. From that he paid about $600 in finance costs and anothe $750 for a commission so you can see he was essentially working for free. Of course, Wittern sold him neat new machines that looked great, but when he left he was served with a document saying he was in breach of contract because the machines had no less than 12 malfunctioning selections that could not or had not been fixed.

[rookie514]

i have had the 49 select since 2003 and in 2006 I added their cold food vendor which i attatched to the 49 select. I forgot the names because they are called so many things by different distributors. The 49 select is rock solid, it is in a location that has over 600 kids in the summer and 200 year round(community center). I have to service the machine every other day during the year and daily in the summer. The machine still looks and work as if it was brand new. I would recomomend the 49 and the cold food. Connecting them was a pain but there customer service dept. walked me through it. I would stay away from the financing as they charge 11% (use a credit card if you need to).
Good luck!!

[coinvestor]

I agree, machines are dumbed down and limited in scope. They do work, but I won't buy anymore. I am in the middle of a four year financing deal. they delivered machines that were not ready for location, had a lot of problems (mostly USI 32s and 38s). It took four months to get them up and going and yet finance wanted their money right away even though the machines were not on site because of mistakes made at Wittern. the finance dept argued that they were a separate entity and didn't care about the sales side which is crap since they are all on the same site etc... They are just separate companies owned by the same parent. Since then I have had multiple problems with machines, even lost one good location because they had decided they didn't like the machines and I could not at the time replace them. We did a survey and the locations number one complaint was unreliable snack machines (all USIs). The finance department just doesn't care and would not hardly work with me. I should have used alternative financing and am actually working on refi right now. I asked the finance dept to rewrite the loan so I could ammoritze it a little longer and be able to afford it since I lost the location primarily because of these machines and they didn't want to hear about it. This is the only location I had ever lost and I learned the hard way not to put questionable machines in high volume locations. Since then I have surveyed other accounts and most with USI machines don't like them. and the part about them finding locations, see my previous post, you will get stuck with a high commission which will come off of gross so the profit your talking about will come down by anywhere from 20-25 percent of the gross because this is how Wittern gets decent locations for people who buy their machines. the guy I know was doing about $3500.00 per month and netting around $1500.00. From that he paid about $600 in finance costs and anothe $750 for a commission so you can see he was essentially working for free. Of course, Wittern sold him neat new machines that looked great, but when he left he was served with a document saying he was in breach of contract because the machines had no less than 12 malfunctioning selections that could not or had not been fixed.

Scott,
May I ask what kind of location this guy has that is doing $3500 a month?

Let me put this out here and see what kind of feedback you guys have. I will give more details than I'm comfortable with, but it’s required for feedback.

Wittern sold six machines (1 cold, 4 drink, 1 snack) with licensed branded fronts to an individual at a significant premium price (supposedly for the branded fronts) to go in a car dealership with 130 employees + service traffic. The individual travels allot for there real job and services the account once a week. The location is mad because they are always running out of stuff. The person said that they just can't do the account and asked wittern to find someone else (basically defaulted).

This is where I come in.......... They called me and asked if I wanted the account. They said I could just assume the loan (yeah right considering they are getting stuck with a default loan). I negotiated for a few days to try and get them to a reasonable price (or near the cost of equipment without the fronts). Would you guys take this account?

Size: 130 + foot traffic
Equipment: 1 cold satellite, 4 BC500's, 1 HR 40
Commission: 0
Income: Unable to verify
Prices: Can soda .75 all snacks at least 50% margins (no bottles except water)
Asking price: 19K
Extra: I told them that if I took the account and it didn't cashflow I would have to pull the two BC500's out of the shop areas, to use in other locations, and replace them with either third party or refurb'ed machines.

Keep in mind this account is very unhappy with the current vendor and would require lots of goodwill effort to turn it around.

How much income do you think this would produce? Would you take this account?

JD

[coinvestor]

Scott,
May I ask what kind of location this guy has that is doing $3500 a month?

Let me put this out here and see what kind of feedback you guys have. I will give more details than I'm comfortable with, but it’s required for feedback.

Wittern sold six machines (1 cold, 4 drink, 1 snack) with licensed branded fronts to an individual at a significant premium price (supposedly for the branded fronts) to go in a car dealership with 130 employees + service traffic. The individual travels allot for there real job and services the account once a week. The location is mad because they are always running out of stuff. The person said that they just can't do the account and asked wittern to find someone else (basically defaulted).

This is where I come in.......... They called me and asked if I wanted the account. They said I could just assume the loan (yeah right considering they are getting stuck with a default loan). I negotiated for a few days to try and get them to a reasonable price (or near the cost of equipment without the fronts). Would you guys take this account?

Size: 130 + foot traffic
Equipment: 1 cold satellite, 4 BC500's, 1 HR 40
Commission: 0
Income: Unable to verify
Prices: Can soda .75 all snacks at least 50% margins (no bottles except water)
Asking price: 19K
Extra: I told them that if I took the account and it didn't cashflow I would have to pull the two BC500's out of the shop areas, to use in other locations, and replace them with either third party or refurb'ed machines.

Keep in mind this account is very unhappy with the current vendor and would require lots of goodwill effort to turn it around.

How much income do you think this would produce? Would you take this account?

JD

Let me add I am supposed to go talk to the account Monday at 10am. Also, the equipment has only been on location for about 8 weeks.

JD

[HooseFoose]

It looks like there are alot more negative reviews than positive. It seems that the Crane/National brand is more of a professional type unit. Where can I get their snack and drinks machines? What kind of luck have you had with used or refurbished Crane/National units? What, as far as the programming is concerned, makes these this brand so much better? I have seen many Crane Snack machines with the Posivend technology, is this stuff for real, or is it just a gimmick? Does Crane have a separate brand for its Soda machines? What should I expect to pay for Crane Machines, both used and new?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[scottgtt]

You can get crane stuff all over and another you might consider is AMS. The guaranteed delivery system on both crane and AMS is very legit and works well

[djpvending]

I thought I might wiegh in on this subject...

we are an ohio based distributor for USI, CRANE/GPL, ROYAL,DIXIE,COINCO , and hamilton changers

you mentioned the difficulty in defining what there equipment is...and i agree with you large manufacturers want to move all they can thus they have many avenues of marketing and basically do so under a variety of equipment names. such as :

wittern fastbreak systems- generates locations already preset and sells location

sams club-direct retail of equipment- limited support

usi distribution- such as us, providing equipment, true custom installation, field service regionally, tech dept, parts dept, etc. we are not locators, we feel that it is a form of competition for our customer base. we do offer consulting regarding sales and marketing , cost analysis, new account projections, making it possible for our customers to successfully control their own destiny. Also while it is true that other avenues of usi support is limited to late models, we as a regional distributor,support all models of all manufacturers we represent back as far as 20 years old. we are also not timid however in advising the customer that his 12 year old machine is costing him too much to keep operating...again we rely totally ON REPEAT BUSINESS to survive.

we are not advocates of any brand name.. every manufacturer out their make some models very good and some are not. that is why we represent more than one brand name.

in regards to manufacturing financing, sure we offer it for those who wish to use it, but whether it is usi or cranes we will be the first to tell you that some type of privatized financing will always be cheaper than the manufacturers.

The bottom line to me is this .....virtually every state in the union has a distributorship like ours. A true brick and mortar operation that you can walk into, discuss your business, work with technical support, or buy a part and leave knowing you will always have their support.

This is not a solicitation for business , its just my two cents worth.. been at this since 1972. , and if nothing else enjoy seeing people out there being successful

[scottgtt]

I did not respond to the earlier question. The location that does $3500 per month is a large white collar employer with over 500 employees. It would do a lot more except there is a deli that competes for business. With respect to the car dealership, might I suggest you meet with the dealership and offer better equiment to them with better service and forget about taking over the other guys equipment. You can get in for less and probably get a better deal. have you checked on the commission level yet?

[midtenn]

I did not respond to the earlier question. The location that does $3500 per month is a large white collar employer with over 500 employees. It would do a lot more except there is a deli that competes for business. With respect to the car dealership, might I suggest you meet with the dealership and offer better equiment to them with better service and forget about taking over the other guys equipment. You can get in for less and probably get a better deal. have you checked on the commission level yet?

I agree. I have never used or dealt with Whitten but I think that you can purchase good quality refurbished equipment that looks like new, maybe order custom tuffronts if they just have to have them and spend a couple hours to install it for about half the cost of what they are asking. EBITDA would look much better and ROI much shorter time period. Just my opinion.

[coinvestor]

I agree. I have never used or dealt with Whitten but I think that you can purchase good quality refurbished equipment that looks like new, maybe order custom tuffronts if they just have to have them and spend a couple hours to install it for about half the cost of what they are asking. EBITDA would look much better and ROI much shorter time period. Just my opinion.

Thanks Midtenn and Scott for the input.

We tried to make it work, but I have not heard from Wittern in 3 days after I told them I would take the account. I think since my offer price was so low (only compaired to the 25k they sold it for the first time) that they are trying to sell it to someone else for more. In the meantime the equipment is sitting there empty and the location is only getting madder. I just called and told them I was no longer interested in the account.

JD

[HooseFoose]

Coinvestor,

Sounds like they lost out on a good customer by not returning your phone calls. Have you had similar experiences with them in the past, or is this the first time they have given you the cold shoulder? How do you like your other Wittern Machines?

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[coinvestor]

Coinvestor,

Sounds like they lost out on a good customer by not returning your phone calls. Have you had similar experiences with them in the past, or is this the first time they have given you the cold shoulder? How do you like your other Wittern Machines?

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

Hoose,
Like others have said I think they are good easy machines to start with. I like the current machines that they offer. If I want to buy used machines I don't by USI because the older ones are poorly designed. There "white glove" delivery makes things easy getting started when you don't have to worry about transporting the machines.

No, I have not had simular situations with them in the past and its not the sales man, its the descision maker in this case that is not being responsive.

I don't care much for the "buy new machines on location" thing through Wittern. Now the local Wittern reseller might find locations then tell you that the location is yours if you buy the machines from him at normal retail price plus $200 location fee. This is what a reseller near me does and it seems to work well. The location I was working on is through Wittern itself. They offer locations custom branded fronts that they have to pay royalties on to the company (chevy, ford, toyota). So now you have to buy all new equipment + custom design + royalties + premium for location.


Like BVI said, I would stay away from this setup until your sure you know what your looking at. The acount that I passed on today was originally sold for 25k. The location was averaging $350 a week do to poor sevice. I'm sure it could have done $500 - $600 with good service. So this acount was grossing $1400 a month with a payment of $750 a month. You do the math......


As far as the equipment goes, I would and sometimes do buy from them. I use there financing for the 90 day no payment no interest, then pay it off.


JD

[HooseFoose]

Vending Chat Members,

Thank you for your replies and thoughts on this thread. I think I am going to go with Wittern Machines, but I am going to take some of these senior operators advice and get my own 3rd party financing.

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[scottgtt]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I just set up one of their newest machines (don't have the model number with me right now). It was a pain. I was trying to show a employee how to stock the machine and even doing it the right way we have had multiple misvends. Also, your numbers are not very good. Have you thought about the fact that any decent location not getting a commission is extremely vulnerable. They are getting prospect letters regularly and if they find out they could get 10-15 percent you could be in trouble, stuck with machines and payment without the cash flow. If you add a commission, you just knocked 200-400 off of your net numbers. I just hate to see you fall for this. It sounds like a location that Wittern got for someone else, it didn't work out and now they want to resell it (they do this regularly). Think about it, they have nothing to lose, they sell the machines once, then sell them again and again less a sellers fee, not a bad gig. Bottom line is do what you feel is right, but this really sounds like a bad deal to me.

[HooseFoose]

Scott,

Thanks for the advice. I decided to not go ahead with this deal. I want a location with Blue Collar workers not office workers.

So, do you think that it is worthwhile to give a location a commission, provided you can still make the numbers work?

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

[scottgtt]

I think it is absolutely essential. I hate commissions, but most good locations will require it even if it means raising prices a little. There are exceptions, but if you are paying a commission on a timely basis etc... then you will earn a lot of good will and when the other vending companies come knocking you have a very solid leg up on them.

[kevin]

It looks like there are alot more negative reviews than positive. It seems that the Crane/National brand is more of a professional type unit. Where can I get their snack and drinks machines? What kind of luck have you had with used or refurbished Crane/National units? What, as far as the programming is concerned, makes these this brand so much better? I have seen many Crane Snack machines with the Posivend technology, is this stuff for real, or is it just a gimmick? Does Crane have a separate brand for its Soda machines? What should I expect to pay for Crane Machines, both used and new?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

~HooseFoose~

Crane has gone extremely cheap and are taking a lot of good machines down with them. For instance, they bought AP and Dixie and now the cabinets are flimsy and the doors dont shut right after about 6 months. I have a brand new cafforia coffee machine from AP(crane) and its already having door problems. Because of this I am moving to AMS snack machines because they are more stable and from what I have seen and heard, more reliable. I actually just decided this last week to buy 12 AMS snacks for a new account instead of AP's. Will be are first non AP purchase in 20 years.

Most people Ive talked to in the industry agree that anything crane buys goes cheap. USing plasic and thin metal in the cabinet is not a good thing at all. Also I only buy Royals on the drink side.

Also I payed less for my AMS machines then I would of for GPL or AP machines.

[blue]

Crane has gone extremely cheap and are taking a lot of good machines down with them. For instance, they bought AP and Dixie and now the cabinets are flimsy and the doors dont shut right after about 6 months. I have a brand new cafforia coffee machine from AP(crane) and its already having door problems. Because of this I am moving to AMS snack machines because they are more stable and from what I have seen and heard, more reliable. I actually just decided this last week to buy 12 AMS snacks for a new account instead of AP's. Will be are first non AP purchase in 20 years.

Most people Ive talked to in the industry agree that anything crane buys goes cheap. USing plasic and thin metal in the cabinet is not a good thing at all. Also I only buy Royals on the drink side.

Also I payed less for my AMS machines then I would of for GPL or AP machines.

Royals is made by which company? Also, is GPL or AP manufactured by National ?

Thanks,

[BVI]

I think it is absolutely essential. I hate commissions, but most good locations will require it even if it means raising prices a little. There are exceptions, but if you are paying a commission on a timely basis etc... then you will earn a lot of good will and when the other vending companies come knocking you have a very solid leg up on them.

I differ a little bit here. Bottom line is service, not commissions. If you provide great service and keep prices reasonable, commissions are irrelevant. It's all based on building a relationship with the account, and making sure the account is taken care of. That's what keeps your accounts intact. I have found that good accounts care more about great service than anything they might gain from receiving a commission.

I have had so many accounts tell me that they don't want a commission, just reasonable prices and good service for their employees.

Nowadays, I turn down any business that insists on a commission. I just won't do it. It's a pain and time waster, and if you don't provide good service anyway, the commission won't make any difference.

[scottgtt]

I don't disagree on service, but when you deal with large accounts, a commission is not only essential it is required. I have one account that gets $3000.00 per month guaranteed and more if revenues are up. I am working on a state contract right now that is a bid and requires a commission. On smaller accounts ($1500.00/mos or less by my definition) I would agree with you, but in todays world, there are a lot of companies that can provide good service and nice machines etc... I have had my "decision" makers leave and bring me with them, but I have also seen new decision makers come in and want to bring their cronies, so I see a commission which usually requires a contract as a major deterrent to other companies etc... In the end, though, good service as you suggest is the base of any good company.

[jblvending]

I don't disagree on service, but when you deal with large accounts, a commission is not only essential it is required. I have one account that gets $3000.00 per month guaranteed and more if revenues are up. I am working on a state contract right now that is a bid and requires a commission. On smaller accounts ($1500.00/mos or less by my definition) I would agree with you, but in todays world, there are a lot of companies that can provide good service and nice machines etc... I have had my "decision" makers leave and bring me with them, but I have also seen new decision makers come in and want to bring their cronies, so I see a commission which usually requires a contract as a major deterrent to other companies etc... In the end, though, good service as you suggest is the base of any good company.

So your saying you pay one account $3000.00 a month commission's, is that correct?